So To Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Bill Courtney is an American football coach, entrepreneur, author, and the subject of the academy award winning 2011 documentary “Undefeated,” which tells the story of Courtney leading a high school football team in an economically depressed area of Memphis, Tenn. to the playoffs. Courtney is the host of the An Army of Normal Folks podcast, in which he shares stories of “ordinary people doing extraordinary things in and around their communities.” His book “Against the Grain: A Coach's Wisdom on Character, Faith, Family, and Love” was released in 2014. In this episode, we discuss coaching, the surprise success of “Undefeated,” and how talking across lines of difference can heal a polarized America.   Chapters: 0:00 Introduction 2:25 Courtney’s background 5:41 The influence of coaches 16:50 How Courtney ended up at Manassas High School 18:50 Coaching in difficult environments 24:30 Bridging divides 30:12 Forgiveness and grace 35:57 Daryl Davis 42:45 The “death spiral” of division and polarization 53:15 What h

We’re joined today by Elizabeth Nolan Brown, Robert Corn-Revere, and Ronnie London to discuss the history and verdict of the Backpage trial.  Backpage.com was an online classified advertising service founded in 2004. As a chief competitor to Craigslist, Backpage allowed users to post ads to categories such as personals, automotive, rentals, jobs and — most notably — adult services. In 2018, the website domain was seized by the FBI and its executives were prosecuted under federal prostitution and money laundering statutes. The trial concluded this year, resulting in the acquittal and convictions of several key executives.  Some First Amendment advocates are concerned that the Backpage case represents a “slippery slope” for the prosecution of protected speech and the rights of websites that host user-generated content. Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason Magazine, where she has written about the Backpage case in detail.  Robert Corn-Revere is FIRE’s chief counsel and a frequent guest of the show.

Nico and FIRE President & CEO Greg Lukianoff appeared on an X Space to discuss the fallout from the recent congressional hearing on anti-Semitism involving Harvard President Claudine Gay, MIT President Sally Kornbluth, and former Penn President Liz Magill, who resigned last week following backlash over her testimony. Timestamps 0:00- Introduction  1:53 - History of FIRE 5:40 - MIT/Harvard/Penn presidents’ testimony  11:35 - How speech codes are abused and conflict over the definition of genocide  14:05 - Penn “water buffalo” incident  16:20 - Will universities take the wrong lesson from these hearings? 21:25 - Double standards on campus  23:41 - Standards for hostile environment harassment, Title VI 26:43 - Is there a university that is currently handling the situation well? 31:19 - Institutional neutrality  38:29 - Guidance for donors   41:51 - The mission of the university 47:35 - College admissions and political litmus tests  51:20 - Faculty viewpoint diversity  57:17 - The path forward    Show notes

We’re joined by First Amendment attorney Marc Randazza and British journalist Brendan O’Neill to discuss the state of free speech in the United States and Europe.  Randazza is a First Amendment attorney and the managing partner at Randazza Legal Group. He has represented controversial figures throughout his career, including Alex Jones, Mike Cernovich, Chuck Johnson, and founder of the neo-nazi website the Daily Stormer, Andrew Anglin. O’Neill is a British author and journalist who served as editor of Spiked from 2007 to September 2021 and is currently its chief political writer. His book, “Heretic’s Manifesto,” was released in June. He last appeared on the podcast on October 20, 2016. Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 6:35 Do lawyers want to defend their enemies any more? 13:00 The oldest form of intolerance  17:19 Israel/Hamas and double standards  32:28 Hate speech laws in Ireland  51:35 Censorship from internet intermediaries 52:33 Debanking and corporate censorship 55:36 PruneYard case  1:01:44 Social media

The FIRE team gets together to discuss the October 7 attacks in Israel and the resulting censorship on college campuses in the United States.  FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff, Director of Campus Rights Advocacy Alex Morey, and General Counsel Ronnie London join host Nico Perrino for the conversation. ** We will conduct a listener survey starting Monday, Nov. 13. “So to Speak” listeners who subscribe to the show’s email list will receive an email with a link to the survey. If you are not an email subscriber, you can subscribe at the bottom of sotospeakpodcast.com or by subscribing to the general FIRE email list at thefire.org and noting that you would also like to subscribe to the “So to Speak” list. We appreciate your feedback: It will help us improve the show!   Timestamps 5:13 - October 7 attacks on Israel  6:04  - Greg’s initial thoughts  14:58 - Alex’s initial thoughts 20:29 - Protected vs. unprotected expression  28:11 - Statements from donors, students and faculty; double standards 40:49 - Institu

The Supreme Court handed down some big First Amendment victories last term. What lies ahead for the Court in the upcoming term? FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London join the show to discuss important First Amendment cases that will be heard during the Court’s 2023-24 session.   Timestamps:   0:00 - Introduction 1:47 - Murthy v. Missouri (government jawboning) 14:40 - NRA v. Vullo (government jawboning) 25:49 - NetChoice cases (social media regulation)  46:39 - Social media blocking cases 56:15 - Vidal v. Elster (trademark registration) 1:05:17 - Gonzalez v. Trevino (First Amendment retaliation)   Show Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-2023-24-supreme-court-preview   Cases Discussed: Murthy v. Missouri (government jawboning)  NetChoice, LLC v. Paxton (social media regulation) Moody v. NetChoice, LLC (social media regulation) O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier (social media blocking) Lindke v. Freed (social media blocking)  Vidal v

President, CEO, and general counsel of the Alliance Defending Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, joins us for a discussion on freedom of speech and religious liberty. ADF has played various roles in 74 U.S. Supreme Court victories and since 2011, has won cases before the Court 15 times.  According to its website, “ADF is the world's largest legal organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of life.” ADF has litigated many high profile and controversial free speech cases, including the recent Supreme Court case involving a web designer who didn’t want to be compelled to design websites for same-sex weddings. Before that, ADF litigated the 2018 Masterpiece Cakeshop case, which involved a cake designer who similarly didn’t want to provide his services for same-sex weddings on religious grounds. After the initial conversation was recorded, The Washington Post and The New Yorker released articles critical of ADF. Nico and Kristen recorded an a

Writer and academic Yascha Mounk argues that a new set of ideas about race, gender, and sexual orientation have overtaken society, giving rise to a rigid focus on identity in our national debate. In his new book, “The Identity Trap: A Story of Ideas and Power in Our Time,” Yascha seeks to take these ideas seriously, understand their origin, dissect their merits and failings, and offer a path forward to avoid what he calls “the identity trap.” On today’s show, Mounk previews his book and explains how the identity trap harms freedom of speech. Mounk is known for his work on the rise of populism and the crisis of liberal democracy. He is a professor of the practice of international affairs at Johns Hopkins University and the author of five books. He is also the founder of the digital magazine Persuasion, a contributing editor at The Atlantic, and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-identity-trap-yascha-mounk Timesta

FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London join the show to preview Greg’s new co-authored book on cancel culture and to discuss recent free speech cases and headlines: Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-dont-tread-me-misgendering-cancel-culture-and-three  “The Canceling of the American Mind,” by Greg Lukianoff and Rikki Schlott (out Oct. 17)  Colorado public school to allow student to display Gadsden flag patch — as long as nobody complains  California library violates First Amendment, boots speakers for referring to transgender women as ‘biological men’  Police stage ‘chilling’ raid on Marion County newspaper, seizing computers, records and cellphones Federal judge: Texas Law Mandating Age Verification for Sexually Themed Sites Violates First Amendment (Court Also Strikes Down "Public Health Warning" for Porn Sites)  Judge blocks Arkansas law requiring parental OK for minors to create social media acc

Harvey Silverglate is a criminal defense and civil liberties attorney. He is also the co-founder of FIRE. On today’s show, Harvey defends the work of criminal defense attorneys, explaining why even guilty people must have the right to a robust legal defense. He also shares stories from his life, from growing up in Brooklyn to defending Vietnam War protesters to co-founding FIRE. Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]  

High school debate is considered an ideal extracurricular activity for aspiring lawyers, politicians, or anyone seeking to learn the tools of effective communication and persuasion. But a slew of recent reports argue that high school debate is being captured by political ideology, rendering certain arguments off-limits, some debate topics undebatable, and ad hominem attacks fair game. Debate judges disclose their judging paradigms by saying things like, “I will listen to conservative-leaning arguments, but be careful,” or, “Before anything else, including being a debate judge, I am a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist. . . . I cannot check the revolutionary proletarian science at the door when I’m judging.” Some debates even devolve into personal attacks, spurred on by judges who say they “will consider indictments of an opponent on the basis that they have done [or] said something racist, gendered, [or] -phobic in their personal behavior.” On today’s show, we’re joined by two former high school debaters who are dismay

We review the Supreme Court’s free speech cases during the 2022-23 term and speculate on what’s in store for the next term. FIRE Vice President of Litigation Darpana Sheth guest hosts and is joined by FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere and FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London. This episode was recorded before a virtual live audience on July 20. Watch a video of the conversation. Transcript Cases discussed: 303 Creative v Elenis  Counterman v. Colorado United States v. Hansen Twitter v. Taamneh Gonzales v. Google The Netchoice cases www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]  

In the last episode of the “So to Speak” podcast, we traced the dramatic story of free speech in the United States from colonial America to the abolitionists' campaign to abolish slavery. In this week’s episode, we pick up where we left off and explore the complicated history and legacy of civil liberties during the American Civil War. Professor and author Joseph R. Fornieri and FIRE Chief Counsel Robert Corn-Revere join the show this week to unpack Abraham Lincoln’s justifications for suspending civil liberties and the important lesson that, in war, civil liberties can be hard to uphold, and our rights can be difficult to defend.  Show notes: Transcript “Fateful Lightning: A New History of the Civil War and Reconstruction” by Allen Guelzo “Lincoln’s First Amendment Record” by Eve Errickson (The Lincoln Cottage) “The Fate of Liberty: Abraham Lincoln and Civil Liberties” by Mark E. Neeley, Jr. “All the Laws but One: Civil Liberties in Wartime” by William H. Rehnquist “Did Abraham Lincoln Exceed His

Last Constitution Day, we traced the origins of free speech in the United States from colonial America to the ratification of the Bill of Rights in 1791. In this episode, we jump forward to the antebellum period, where abolitionists such as Frederick Douglass, John Quincy Adams, William Lloyd Garrison, and Angelina Grimké clashed with pro-slavery advocates over the monumental issue of slavery. Journalist and author Damon Root, FIRE Senior Fellow Jacob Mchangama, and Washington and Lee University professor Lucas Morel join the show this week to explore how free speech and the free press became the essential tools in the abolitionists’ campaign for freedom.  Show notes: Transcript “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media” by Jacob Mchangama “Glorious Liberty: Frederick Douglass and the Fight for an Anti-Slavery Constitution” by Damon Root “Speaking the Truth” by Lucas Morel (Persuasion) “A Plea for Free Speech in Boston” by Federick Douglass (National Constitution Center) “Frederick Doug

Nico knows very little about punk rock. On today’s show, Reason magazine’s Nick Gillespie and FIRE Vice President of Communications Matt Harwood do their best to explain to Nico why he and other free speech advocates should care about punk rock.  Transcript:  https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-why-should-we-care-about-punk-rock www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]  

Winning in the court of public opinion is hard. On today’s show, Ewing School founder Bob Ewing shares communications strategies that anyone — including free speech advocates — can use to win in the marketplace of ideas. Prior to founding the Ewing School, Bob was director of communications for the Institute for Justice and pioneered a communications training program for the Mercatus Center at George Mason University. Bob is also the author of the Talking Big Ideas Substack, which Nico highly recommends. Bob first shared his ideas on effective communication with host Nico Perrino over lunch in May 2013. Some of those ideas went on to shape FIRE’s communications strategy for the next decade. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-how-make-winning-free-speech-argument www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagra

On April 18, Fox News agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems $787.5 million to settle a defamation lawsuit stemming from allegations of voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election. The historic settlement came just before the trial was set to begin in a case many saw as having significant First Amendment implications. In this exclusive conversation, attorneys for Fox and Dominion join First Amendment attorney Lee Levine to reflect on what led to the case, its outcome, and the arguments they would have made had the case gone to trial.  Tom Clare is a founding partner of Clare Locke LLP and was counsel to Dominion. Dan Webb is co-executive chairman of Winston & Strawn and was counsel for Fox News. The conversation was organized and presented by The First Amendment Salon on Tuesday, May 9. Show notes: Transcript Video of the conversation   www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/so

Rocking their tuxedos in preparation for the 2023 FIRE gala in New York City, Host Nico Perrino speaks with rapper and free speech advocate Killer Mike about his journey toward learning the value of free expression. They also discuss the importance of free speech in American history, the value of engaging and arguing with those who disagree with us, why free speech was critical to gaining racial equality, defending rappers and artists being prosecuted for their lyrics, and why polarization is more dangerous than anything anybody can say. The interview is followed by Killer Mike’s keynote speech. Watch Killer Mike's keynote speech at the 2023 FIRE Gala in New York City: https://youtu.be/OBuXYtmQ8mw www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]    

Does music censorship still happen in America? Is “sex, drugs, and rock ‘n’ roll” dead? Is transgression in art and culture celebrated anymore (or was it ever)? From Beyonce and Taylor Swift to Ozzy Osbourne and Robin Thicke, SPIN magazine founder Bob Guccione Jr. and Reason magazine Editor at Large Nick Gillespie join a lively discussion of our current moment in pop culture. Bob also shares some war stories from his fight against the Parents Music Resource Center in the 1980s. Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-sex-drugs-and-free-speech www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]

What’s going on in Florida? Host Nico Perrino and his FIRE colleagues break down the latest efforts to censor speech in the Sunshine State. Show notes: Transcript “VICTORY: After FIRE lawsuit, court halts enforcement of key provisions of the Stop WOKE Act limiting how Florida professors can teach about race, sex” “Thought the ‘Stop WOKE Act’ was bad? A new Florida bill is worse” “Unconstitutional and un-American, Senate Bill 1316 would force bloggers who criticize the government to register with the state” “Florida bill attacking NYT v. Sullivan would ‘spell disaster’ for free speech” Miami Herald: “Florida undercover agents reported no ‘lewd acts’ at drag show targeted by DeSantis” by Nicholas Nehamas and Ana Ceballos   www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]