So To Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Can a course on conservatism shake up the liberal status quo on campus?   Tufts University professor Eitan Hersh presents his unique class on American conservatism and its impact on campus free speech and open dialogue. He discusses the challenges and opportunities of teaching conservative thought in a predominantly liberal academic environment.   Eitan Hersh is a professor of political science. He earned his Ph.D. from Harvard University in 2011 and was a faculty member at Yale University from 2011-2017.    In March, professor Hersh’s course on conservatism was profiled in Boston Magazine under the headline, “A Conservative Thought Experiment on a Liberal College Campus.”   Timestamps 00:00 Intro 02:02 Prof. Hersh’s personal political beliefs 03:47 Political diversity among faculty and students 05:14 Hersh’s journey to academia 06:07 What does a conservatism course look like? 09:30 His colleagues’ response to the course 10:29 The challenges of discussing controversial topics 13:28 FIRE’s data on difficult ca

How has 19th-century English philosopher John Stuart Mill influenced America’s conception of free speech and the First Amendment? In their new book, “The Supreme Court and the Philosopher: How John Stuart Mill Shaped U.S. Free Speech Protections,” co-authors Eric Kasper and Troy Kozma look at how the Supreme Court has increasingly aligned its interpretation of free expression with Mill’s philosophy, as articulated in “On Liberty.” Eric Kasper is professor of political science at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire, where he serves as the director of the Menard Center for Constitutional Studies. Troy Kozma is a professor of philosophy and the academic chair at the University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire - Barron County. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 02:26 Book’s origin 06:51 Who is John Stuart Mill? 10:09 What is the “harm principle”? 16:30 Early Supreme Court interpretation of the First Amendment 26:25 What was Justice Holmes’ dissent in Abrams v. U.S.? 30:28 Why did Justice Brandeis join Holmes’ dissents? 36:10 What

Some argue that Section 230 allows the internet to flourish. Others argue it allows harmful content to flourish. Christopher Cox knows something about Section 230: He co-wrote it.  Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is an American law passed in 1996 that shields websites from liability for content posted on their sites by users.  What does Rep. Cox make of the law today? Rep. Cox was a 17-year member of the House of Representatives and is a former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:43 Did Section 230 create the modern internet? 7:48 America’s technological advancement 11:33 Section 230’s support for good faith content moderation 18:00 User privacy and age verification? 25:37 Rep. Cox’s early experiences with the internet 30:24 Did we need Section 230 in the first place? 37:51 Are there any changes Rep. Cox would make to Section 230 now? 42:40 How does AI impact content creation and moderation? 47:23 The future of Section 230 54:31 Closing thoughts 57:30 O

Did overheated political rhetoric lead to the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump? On today’s show we explore political violence: its history, its causes, and its relationship with free speech. Flemming Rose is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. He previously served as foreign affairs editor and culture editor at the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. In 2005, he was principally responsible for publishing the cartoons that initiated the Muhammad cartoons controversy.   Nadine Strossen is a professor emerita at New York Law School, former president of the ACLU, and a senior fellow at FIRE.   Jacob Mchangama is the founder and executive director of The Future of Free Speech. He is a research professor at Vanderbilt University and a senior fellow at FIRE.   Timestamps   0:00 Intro 2:45 Initial reactions to Trump assassination attempt 7:39 Can we blame political violence on rhetoric? 15:56 Weimar and Nazi Germany 26:05 Is the Constitution a “suicide pact”? 39:21 Is violence ever justified?

The Supreme Court term is over. We review its First Amendment cases. Joining the show are FIRE Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London, and Institute for Justice Deputy Litigation Director Robert McNamara.   Become a FIRE Member today and gain access to live monthly webinars where you can ask questions of FIRE staff. The next webinar is July 8 at 1 p.m. ET. We will take your questions about the Supreme Court term. Show Notes: Transcript Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:53 Moody v. NetChoice and NetChoice v. Paxton 31:02 NRA v. Vullo 46:57 Murthy v. Missouri 1:06:04 Gonzales v. Trevino 1:17:58 Vidal v. Elster 1:26:04 O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier and Lindke v. Freed 1:34:00 Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo (the Chevron deference case) 1:37:26 Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton (forthcoming SCOTUS case) 1:38:30 Outro  

There is a movement afoot to restrict young people’s access to social media and pornography. Critics of social media and online porn argue that they can be harmful to minors, and states across the country are taking up the cause, considering laws that would impose age-verification, curfews, parental opt-ins, and other restrictions. Meanwhile, critics of the critics argue that the evidence of harm isn’t so conclusive and that many of the proposed restrictions violate core civil liberties such as privacy and free speech. So, who’s right? Clare Morell is a senior policy analyst at the Ethics and Public Policy Center and the author of the forthcoming book, “The Tech Exit: A Manifesto for Freeing Our Kids.” Ari Cohn is free speech counsel at TechFreedom, a technology think tank.   Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:17 The alleged harms of social media 11:31 Just another technological moral panic? 25:49 How is internet access currently restricted for minors? 41:17 The age verification problem 1:00:27 Assessing the First Amen

It is said that censorship is the strongest drive in human nature — with sex being a weak second. But what happens when these two primordial drives clash? Does censorship or sex win out? Nadine Strossen is a professor emerita at New York Law School, a former president of the ACLU, and a senior fellow at FIRE. She is also the author of “Defending Pornography: Free Speech, Sex, and the Fight for Women’s Rights.” First released in 1995, the book was reissued this year with a new preface. Mary Anne Franks is a law professor at George Washington University and the president and legislative and tech policy director of the Cyber Civil Rights Initiative. She is the author of “The Cult of the Constitution: Our Deadly Devotion to Guns and Free Speech” and the forthcoming “Fearless Speech: Breaking Free from the First Amendment.” Show Notes: Transcript Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:17 Defining pornography 7:20 Is porn protected by the First Amendment? 11:10 Revenge porn 22:05 Origins of “Defending Pornography” 25:06 Andrea D

Did 26 words from an American law passed in 1996 create the internet? Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act says that interactive websites and applications cannot be held legally liable for the content posted on their sites by their users. Without the law, it’s likely Facebook, Amazon, Reddit, Yelp, and X wouldn’t exist — at least not in their current form. But some say the law shields large tech companies from liability for enabling, or even amplifying, harmful content. On today’s show, we discuss Section 230, recent efforts to reform it, and new proposals for content moderation on the internet. Marshall Van Alstyne is a professor of information systems at Boston University. Robert Corn-Revere is FIRE’s chief counsel. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 3:52 The origins of Section 230? 6:40 Section 230’s “forgotten provision” 13:29 User vs. platform control over moderation 23:24 Harms allegedly enabled by Section 230 40:17 Solutions 46:03 Private market for moderation 1:02:42 Case study: Hunter Biden laptop sto

The First Amendment forbids government censorship. Private institutions, on the other hand, are generally free to restrict speech. How should we think about private censorship and its role within a liberal society? On today’s episode, we’re joined by J.P. Messina, an assistant professor in the philosophy department at Purdue University and the author of the new book, “Private Censorship.” Also on the show is Aaron Terr, FIRE’s director of public advocacy. Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 3:10 The origin story of “Private Censorship” 8:29 How does FIRE figure out what to weigh in on?  12:04 Examples of private censorship  18:24 Regulating speech at work  22:21 Regulating speech on social media platforms 30:09 Is social media essentially a public utility? 35:50 Are internet service providers essentially public utilities?  44:43 Social media vs. ISPs  51:02 Censorship on search engines  59:47 Defining illiberalism outside of government censorship 1:16:06 Outro   Show Notes Episode transcript Packingham v. North Car

On May 1, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Antisemitism Awareness Act by a vote of 320 to 91. Proponents of the law say it is necessary to address anti-Semitic discrimination on college campuses. Opponents argue it threatens free speech.   Who’s right?   Kenneth Stern was the lead drafter of the definition of anti-Semitism used in the act. But he said the definition was never meant to punish speech. Rather, it was drafted to help data collectors write reports.  Stern is the director of the Bard Center for the Study of Hate. His most recent book is titled, “The Conflict Over the Conflict: The Israel/Palestine Campus Debate.”   Timestamps   0:00 Introduction 04:06 Introducing Ken Stern 7:59 Can hate speech codes work? 11:13 Off-campus hate speech codes 13:33 Drafting the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition  21:53 How should administrators judge anti-Semitism without the IHRA definition?  27:29 Is there a rise in unlawful discrimination on campuses today?  40:20 Opposition to the

Host Nico Perrino joins his FIRE colleagues Will Creeley and Alex Morey to answer questions about the recent campus unrest and its First Amendment implications.    Timestamps   0:00 Introduction  0:41 What is FIRE?/campus unrest 5:44 What are the basic First Amendment principles for campus protest? 11:30 Student encampments  18:09 Exceptions to the First Amendment 29:01 Can administrators limit access to non-students/faculty? 34:13 Denying recognition to Students for Justice in Palestine 36:26 Were protesters at UT Austin doing anything illegal? 40:54 The USC valedictorian  45:09 What does “objectively offensive” mean? / Does Davis apply to colleges? 46:55 Is it illegal to protest too loudly? 50:03 What options do colleges have to moderate/address hate speech? 54:20 Does calling for genocide constitute bullying/harassment? 59:09 Wrapping up on the situation    Show Notes   “USC canceling valedictorian’s commencement speech looks like calculated censorship,” Alex Morey “Emerson College: Conservative Student Gr

In America, hate speech is generally protected by the First Amendment. But should it be? Today’s guest is out with a new book, “Hate Speech is Not Free: The Case Against First Amendment Protection.” W. Wat Hopkins is emeritus professor of communication at Virginia Tech, where he taught communication law and cyberspace law.  Transcript of Interview: https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-should-first-amendment-protect-hate-speech Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 5:34 Why write about hate speech?8:50 Has the Supreme Court ruled on hate speech? 13:56 What speech falls outside First Amendment protection? 16:44 The history of the First Amendment 20:00 Fighting words and Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942) 24:00 How does the Supreme Court determine what speech is protected? 35:24 Defining hate speech 38:54 Debating the value of hate speech 44:02 Defining hate speech (again) 50:30 Abuses of hate speech codes 1:00:10 Skokie 1:02:39 Current Supreme Court and hate speech 1:06:00 Outro Show Note

In late 2013, some of us at FIRE started noticing a change on college campuses. Students, who were previously the strongest constituency for free speech on campus, were turning against free speech. They began appealing to administrators more frequently for protection from different speakers and using the language of trauma and safety to justify censorship. What changed? Neil Howe may have an answer. He is a historian, economist, and demographer who speaks frequently on generational change. His most recent book, “The Fourth Turning is Here,” was published last year. Howe argues that history has seasonal rhythms of growth, maturation, entropy, and rebirth and that different generations take on different attributes reflecting their place in the cycle. Joining Howe and host Nico Perrino for the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff, co-author of “The Canceling of the American Mind." Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 6:10 Neil’s intent with his book, “Generations” 13:12 Pattern in American history 17:0

“I have never seen a Supreme Court term that is as consequential as this one is going to be,” said FIRE Chief Counsel Bob Corn-Revere, previewing this term’s First Amendment cases. On today’s show, we analyze the oral arguments in four of those cases: NRA v. Vullo, Murthy v. Missouri (formerly Missouri v. Biden), Moody v. NetChoice, LLC, and NetChoice, LLC, v. Paxton. We also discuss the court’s decision in two cases involving government officials blocking their critics on social media. Joining the show are Corn-Revere, FIRE General Counsel Ronnie London, and FIRE Director of Public Advocacy Aaron Terr.   Timestamps   0:00 Introduction 3:29 NRA v. Vullo 26:05 Murthy v. Missouri 50:41 Netchoice cases 1:11:26 Lindke v. Freed and O’Connor-Ratcliff v. Garnier  1:21:24 Outro   Show Notes    NRA v. Vullo oral argument transcript Bantam Books, Inc. et. al v Sullivan et al. (1963) Murthy v. Missouri oral argument transcript Moody v. NetChoice, LLC oral argument transcript NetChoice, LLC v. Paxton oral argument

There is a recurring debate in the free speech community regarding whether money is speech.    Bitcoin-focused entrepreneur, writer, and philosopher Robert Breedlove joins us today to help resolve the debate. Describing money as “the language of human action,” Robert makes the case that money, like the cryptocurrency Bitcoin, is information and should be free from government regulation and manipulation. During this longer-than-usual episode, Robert and Nico discuss everything from Keynesian economics and 3D-printed firearms to the Chinese Communist Party.    Robert is the host of the popular podcast, “The ‘What is Money?’ Show,” which dives into the nature of money by asking guests one simple question: What is money? In 2020, he co-authored the book, “Thank God for Bitcoin: The Creation, Corruption and Redemption of Money.”   Timestamps   0:00 Introduction 3:56 Robert’s background  19:21 What is Austrian economics?  24:23 Is money speech?  44:48 Can money express irrational things?  51:59 Is access to perfect

On today’s episode, we discuss Alexei Navalny’s death, Vladimir Putin, censorship in Russia, and Samizdat Online, an anti-censorship platform that grants users living under authoritarian regimes access to news and other censored content. Yevgeny “Genia” Simkin is the co-founder of Samizdat Online and Stanislav “Stas” Kucher is its chief content officer.   Timestamps   0:00 Introduction  2:25 Alexei Navalny  8:53 The state of Russian opposition 20:48 The origins of Samizdat Online 28:17 How does Samizdat Online circumvent censorship?  35:16 Could Yevgeny Prigozhin have overthrown Putin? 41:03 The progression of Putin’s regime  58:08 How can people help?  59:56 Outro   Show notes   Statement by Russian prison service on Alexei Navalny’s death The Anti-Corruption Foundation (nonprofit established by Alexei Navalny) Samizdat Online “Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible” by Peter Pomerantsev Transcript   Past related episodes   Ep. 108: A history of (dis)information wars in the Soviet Union and beyond Ep.

On today’s free speech news roundup, we discuss the recent NetChoice oral argument, Taylor Swift, doxxing, October 7 fallout on campus, and Satan in Iowa.  Joining us on the show are Alex Morey, FIRE director of Campus Rights Advocacy; Aaron Terr, director of Public Advocacy; and Ronnie London, our general counsel.   Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 0:44 NetChoice oral arguments 19:39 Taylor Swift cease and desist letter  29:20 Publishing unlawfully obtained information  39:28 Harvard and doxxing  47:44 Princeton no contact orders  55:52 Columbia law denies recognition to Law Students Against Antisemitism  1:02:38 Columbia adopts Kalven Report 1:06:06 Indiana University art exhibit canceled, professor suspended 1:14:55 Satan in Iowa 1:21:59 Outro   Show Notes  “So to Speak” 2023-24 Supreme Court Preview (contains discussion of NetChoice cases) Correspondence between Taylor Swift and Jack Sweeney’s attorneys  Bartnicki v. Vopper (2001) Princeton no contact order  Columbia university grants recognition to Law St

J Hopkins is an American playwright, novelist, and political satirist. He moved to Germany in 2004. He publishes a self-titled blog on Substack and is the editor of Consent Factory Publishing.    CJ’s most recent book, “The Rise of the New Normal Reich,” draws a parallel between Nazi Germany and the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In August 2022, it was banned on Amazon in Germany, Austria, and the Netherlands. In the months that followed, CJ was charged by German authorities with violating a section of the German penal code that prohibits “disseminating information, the intention of which is to further the aims of a former National-Socialist organization [the Nazis].” He was recently acquitted, but the prosecutor chose to appeal the decision.    In the coming months, CJ will stand trial — again — for a crime he claims he didn’t commit and for which he has already been acquitted.   **We are launching on Substack this week! Nothing will change for our listeners. It’s just another way to support the podcast

Michael Malice is a self-described “anarchist without adjectives” and is the author of several books, including most recently “The White Pill: A Tale of Good and Evil.” He is also the host of the podcast, “YOUR WELCOME,” and the subject of the biographical comic book, “Ego & Hubris: The Michael Malice Story.”   Michael joins us today to explain why he hates the term “free speech,” and gives his thoughts on McCarthyism, anarchism, Twitter, and more.     Timestamps   0:00 Introduction 0:46 Who is Michael Malice? 6:45 What is an anarchist without adjectives? 7:26 The definition of anarchism/prominent anarchists  8:01 How do we have free speech in an anarchist society? 16:54 The McCarthy Era 20:38 Students for Justice in Palestine 24:57 Should we advocate for a culture of free speech? 30:44 “Hitman”  34:01 What is the core right under an anarchist system? 36:26 Elon, Twitter, and free speech 44:38 Emma Goldman and McCarthyism 55:27 Cancel culture   1:01:37 From Emma Goldman to Solzhenitsyn 1:05:31 What is it

Jeff Kosseff is an associate professor of cybersecurity law in the United States Naval Academy’s Cyber Science Department. He is the author of four books including his most recent, “Liar in a Crowded Theater: Freedom of Speech in a World of Misinformation.” He has also written books about anonymous speech and Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act.   Timestamps   0:00 Introduction 2:30 Jeff’s focus on the First Amendment  4:27 What is Section 230? 9:30 “Liar in a Crowded Theater” 16:27 What does the First Amendment say about lies? 19:35 What speech isn’t protected?  21:27 The Eminem case  27:33 The Dominion lawsuit  38:44 “The United States of Anonymous” 46:39 The impact of age verification laws  49:43 “The Twenty-Six Words that Created the Internet” 58:40 What’s next for Jeff?  1:01:35 Outro    Show Notes  Podcast Transcript  Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association (2011) FIRE’s guide to Section 230 Nikki Haley on social media anonymity Schenck v. United States (1917) “The Twenty-Six Words Th