So To Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

UPDATE: Just as this podcast was to be published, Stanford Law School Dean Jenny Martinez sent a 10-page memorandum to the law school community outlining a path forward for the school, including updating school policies to prevent future speaker disruptions and mandatory student free speech training. She also announced that Associate Dean Tirien Steinbach is on leave. – The heckling began almost as soon as Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals Judge Kyle Duncan started his invited lecture at Stanford Law School on March 9. Signs in the audience read “RESPECT TRANS RIGHTS,” “FEDSUCK,” “BE PRONOUN NOT PRO-BIGOT.”  What transpired over the next 40 minutes captured national headlines and raised questions about the state of free speech at America’s law schools. David Lat writes commentary about law and the legal profession for Original Jurisdiction. Until 2019, he was an editor at the legal news website Above the Law, which he founded. Prior to his journalism career, David was a practicing lawyer. Show notes: Transc

Ilya Shapiro joins the show to discuss the fireworks in the Fox/Dominion defamation lawsuit, his recent speaking appearance at the University of Denver, and his “cancel culture nightmare” at Georgetown University. Shapiro is a senior fellow and director of constitutional studies at the Manhattan Institute. He previously (and briefly) served as executive director and senior lecturer at the Georgetown Center for the Constitution and as a vice president at the Cato Institute. Shapiro will speak at FIRE’s gala celebration in NYC on April 18. Reserve your tickets now at this link. Show notes: Transcript “My cancel culture nightmare is over” by Ilya Shapiro “Ilya Shapiro resigns from Georgetown following reinstatement after 122-day investigation of tweets” (featuring Ilya’s resignation letter) Ilya’s Substack, Shapiro’s Gavel “Why the mental health of liberal girls sank first and fastest” by Jonathan Haidt www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.t

The seminal 1964 Supreme Court decision in New York Times v. Sullivan limited the ability of public officials to silence their critics by successfully suing them for defamation. Sullivan made “American public officials more accountable, the American media more watchful, and the American people better informed,” said William Rehnquist, the late Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. But Sullivan is increasingly under attack from politicians, activists, and even sitting Justices of the Supreme Court. They believe the decision went too far, enabling the news media and others to defame others with little-to-no consequence. On today’s show, we are joined by lawyers Floyd Abrams (Cahill Gordon & Reindel), JT Morris (FIRE), and Matthew Schafer (Fordham Law) to discuss New York Times v. Sullivan and its future. Show notes: Transcript  New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964) “Two Justices Say Supreme Court Should Reconsider Landmark Libel Decision” by Adam Liptak “How to Restore Balance to Libel Law” by Gle

FIRE’s Will Creeley and Aaron Terr join the show to discuss Phoenix, Arizona’s unconstitutional “clean zone” for Super Bowl LVII, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s effort to get public school students to volunteer for her re-election campaign, recent polling on how much people really know about the First Amendment (sadly, not much), and Indiegogo, Kickstarter, and Crowdfundr canceling fundraisers for comic books they deemed politically unacceptable.  We also provide an update on the Hamline University Muhammad art censorship case. Show notes: Transcript “Phoenix ordinance restricting signs during Super Bowl is offsides on the First Amendment” “Here’s why Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot can’t ask teachers to help her reelection campaign” “Indie-no-go: Popular crowdfunding sites cancel fundraisers for comic books about gender identity and the U.S.-Mexico border” “Do Americans know their rights? Survey says: No.” “Hamline Faculty vote 71-12 to urge president to step down after academic freedom scandal” www.sotospea

What does the rise of artificial intelligence mean for the future of free speech and the First Amendment? Who is liable for what AI produces? Can you own a copyright for works produced by AI? Does AI itself violate intellectual property rights when it uses others’ information to generate content? What about that Morgan Freeman “deep fake”? And is ChatGPT going to make all of our jobs irrelevant? Show notes: Transcript Guests: Eugene Volokh, professor at UCLA School of Law David Greene, senior staff attorney and civil liberties director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation Alison Schary, partner at Davis Wright Tremaine www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@freespeechtalk Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]

A faculty member at Hamline University lost her job. Twelve staffers at the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo were murdered. And Salman Rushdie was repeatedly stabbed. All of them offended certain people’s religious sensitivities. On today’s show, we are joined by Amna Khalid and Michael Moynihan to discuss the risks and costs of teaching, talking, writing, and creating art about religion, particularly Islam. We also discuss the recent #TwitterFiles reporting. Amna Khalid is an associate professor of history at Carleton College and host of the podcast “Banished.” Michael Moynihan is a writer, reporter, and co-host of “The Fifth Column” podcast. Show notes: Transcript New York Times: “A Lecturer Showed a Painting of the Prophet Muhammad. She Lost Her Job.” by Vimal Patel The offending image “Most of All, I Am Offended as a Muslim” by Amna Khalid “Hamline Student Newspaper (the Oracle) Removed Published Defense of Lecturer Who Showed Painting of Muhammad” by Eugene Volokh “We must stand up to Iran’s th

Do Ann Coulter’s words equal “violence”? Does Emerson College care more about not offending the Chinese Communist Party than protecting student free speech rights? And are faculty political litmus tests back in vogue? FIRE’s Alex Morey and Zach Greenberg join the show to discuss the latest in campus censorship. Please support this show by donating to FIRE before the end of the year: thefire.org/support Show notes: Transcript “San Diego State University: University senate adopts policy imposing DEI requirement in reappointment, tenure, and promotion review process” “University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign: Faculty up for promotion and tenure must submit diversity, equity, and inclusion statements, affirm university views” “‘Your words are violence!’ Cornell students shout down Ann Coulter in latest heckler’s veto to roil campuses this semester” by Amanda Nordstrom “Penn State defends canceling controversial event over ‘threats of violence,’ as police stood by during assaults on students” by Aaron Corpora

Hot on the heels of oral argument in 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis, FIRE’s Ronnie London and David Hudson join the show to discuss the case, as well as other high profile free speech cases at the Supreme Court this year. Show notes: Transcript Watch the video of the podcast conversation 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis Shurtleff v. City of Boston  Kennedy v. Bremerton School District Gonzalez v. Google LLC Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith Jack Daniel’s Properties, Inc. v. VIP Products LLC www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thefireorg Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]

FIRE’s new Director of Public Advocacy Aaron Terr and the Cato Institute’s Will Duffield join the show to discuss a slew of recent free speech news. California gets it right on rap lyrics but wrong on coronavirus misinformation. One Texas school district repeatedly ventures into book banning. LeBron James spreads “hate speech” misinformation. Is government “jawboning” censorship? And, yes, Elon Musk . . . again. Show notes: Transcript  Watch the video of the podcast conversation “VICTORY: After FIRE lawsuit, court halts enforcement of key provisions of the Stop WOKE Act limiting how Florida professors can teach about race, sex” “Jawboning against Speech: How Government Bullying Shapes the Rules of Social Media,” by Will Duffield “Fact Sheet: Texas School District Bans 'Gender Fluidity' from Library Shelves” “California Restricts Use of Rap Lyrics in Criminal Trials After Gov. Newsom Signs Bill,” “The ACLU Says California's Ban on COVID-19 ‘Misinformation’ From Doctors Is Gratuitous and Unconstitutional,” Le

FIRE’s Will Creeley and Aaron Terr join the show to discuss a slew of recent free speech news: What do we make of Elon Musk buying Twitter? Is PayPal fining its users $2,500 for promoting “misinformation”? Is New York trying to destroy Twitch? And do public employees in Charlottesville, Va., need to shut their mouths to keep their jobs? Also, how’s FIRE’s off-campus expansion going? Show notes: Transcript Open letter to Elon Musk from Greg Lukianoff on preserving free expression on social media “Elon Musk’s business ties deserve more scrutiny” by Matt Yglesias “Welcome to geriatric social media” by Charlie Warzel “Silicon Values: The future of free speech under surveillance capitalism” by Jillian C. York “PayPal is no pal to free expression” by Aaron Terr “Did PayPal reverse course on proposed speech-chilling policies?” by Aaron Terr “Did PayPal quietly bring back its financial penalty for spreading ‘misinformation’?” by Aaron Terr “The Internet Is Not Facebook: Why Infrastructure Providers Should Stay Out

Do books need a special editor who reads for offensive content? And who gets to decide what’s offensive anyway? This week we are joined by authors Kat Rosenfield and Vesper Stamper to discuss censorial trends in book publishing, including the rise of so-called “sensitivity readers” and the sometimes successful campaigns to get books canceled before they are even published. We also explore adjacent debates: Is it appropriate to write outside of one’s identity or lived experience? And can authors write about people who do bad things without endorsing the bad things they do? Show notes: Transcript “The Toxic Drama on YA Twitter” by Kat Rosenfield “Berliners” by Vesper Stamper “No One Will Miss Her: A Novel” by Kat Rosenfield New York Times: “Sundance Liked Her Documentary on Terrorism, Until Muslim Critics Didn’t” “You Must Remember This: A Novel” by Kat Rosenfield www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakTheFreeSpeechPodcast Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Fa

Does the First Amendment to the United States Constitution protect a private social media company’s right to moderate content on its platform?A new ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit says it does not, and that a Texas law preventing viewpoint discrimination on social media platforms is constitutional.The issue is likely bound for the Supreme Court, setting up what is arguably the most consequential First Amendment legal case in a half-century. Institute for Free Speech Chairman and Founder Brad Smith and George Mason University law professor Ilya Somin join us to debate the ruling and the future of free speech on the internet. Show notes: Transcript Texas social media law, HB 20 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in NetChoice v. Paxton 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in NetChoice v. Attorney General, State of Florida Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act of 1996 Pruneyard Shopping Center et al v. Robins et al. (1980) Masterpiece Cakeshop, LTD. v. Colorado Civil Ri

“Should academic journals appoint themselves social justice gatekeepers?”That is the question journalist and author Jonathan Rauch asks in responding to new ethics guidance from the academic journal Nature Human Behaviour. The journal introduces the guidance by ominously noting that “although academic freedom is fundamental, it is not unbounded.” It then goes on to discuss ways it will restrict publishing research that allegedly harms, stigmatizes, or otherwise “undermines the dignity or rights of specific groups” — even inadvertently.Rauch joins the show, along with University of Southern California professor Anna Krylov. Show notes: Transcript “Science must respect the dignity and rights of all humans” by Nature Human Behaviour (editorial announcing ethics guidelines) “Nature Human Misbehavior: politicized science is neither science nor progress” by Jonathan Rauch “The Peril of Politicizing Science” by Anna l. Krylov “The Doctrine of Academic Freedom” by Sandra Y.L. Korn (article advocating for “academic

This Saturday, Sept. 17, is Constitution Day. It was on this day in 1787 that delegates to the Constitutional Convention signed America’s Constitution. And while the First Amendment was not ratified until 1791, discussions over the role of free speech and expression in a democratic society were alive long before then. Pepperdine University professor and author Gordon Lloyd joins the show this week to explore how the American conception of free speech came to be, from the colonial era to the ratification of the Bill of Rights. Drawing from over 40 years of research, Lloyd discusses examples of free speech and expression during the founding, ranging from 1641, when the Massachusetts Body of Liberties — the earliest known protection of free speech in the colonies — was published; to 1776, when free speech aided the decision to declare independence from Great Britain; to the late 1780s, when federalist and anti-federalist publications sparked, in Lloyd’s words, “the greatest pamphlet war the world has ever seen.”

What can Charles Darwin teach us about dissent? What do the professional basketball careers of Wilt Chamberlain and Rick Barry tell us about conventional wisdom?On today’s show, George Mason University Professor Todd Kashdan helps us understand the value of principled dissent: what it is, how to do it, and the pitfalls to avoid. He is the author of “The Art of Insubordination: How to Dissent and Defy Effectively.”  Show notes: Transcript Todd’s “Provoked” newsletter: “Enjoy new psychological angles on conventional practices.” Study: “Sexual Healing: Daily Diary Investigation of the Benefits of Intimate and Pleasurable Sexual Activity in Socially Anxious Adults” Study: “Is Martin Luther King or Malcolm X the more acceptable face of protest? High-status groups’ reactions to low-status groups’ collective action” “Brief, face-to-face canvassing reduces transgender prejudice, study says” www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakTheFreeSpeechPodcast Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/f

Last week, a would-be assassin attacked Salman Rushdie, author of “The Satanic Verses,”  in an apparent attempt to carry out the infamous fatwa placed on Rushdie’s life. Fortunately, Rushdie survived the attack. Vice News Tonight correspondent and “The Fifth Column” podcast co-host Michael Moynihan joins the show to discuss what happened, what it means for free speech, and the history of “The Satanic Verses” controversy.  Show notes: Transcript Lara Bazelon’s keynote address at FIRE’s 2022 Student Network Conference “Sticks and Stones: Defeating the Culture of Bullying and Rediscovering the Power of Character and Empathy” by Emily Bazelon “From Fatwa to Jihad: The Rushdie Affair and Its Aftermath” by Kenan Malik Kenan Malik BBC Newsnight clip arguing that “The Satanic Verses” “wouldn’t even be written today, let alone published.” “The Tyranny of Silence” by Flemming Rose “Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought” by Jonathan Rauch “Free Speech: A History from Socrates to Social Media” by Jacob M

When the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, eliminating the constitutional right to an abortion in the United States, many people expected states to pass laws restricting access to abortion services. Perhaps less expected was that some lawmakers now seek to pass laws restricting — and criminalizing — speech about abortion services. FIRE Legal Director Will Creeley and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen join the show to discuss their recent essay, “That Facebook post about abortion could land you in jail — if South Carolina legislators have their way.” Show notes: Transcript Text of South Carolina bill criminalizing speech about abortion National Right to Life Committee model legislation National Institute of Family and Life Advocates v. Becerra (2018) Bigelow v. Virginia (1975) UNC Chapel Hill student government commits to follow First Amendment after suggesting it wouldn’t fund pro-life student groups www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakThe

Substack — the popular newsletter and publishing service — has made a name for itself by swimming against the current: As many technology companies devise new ways to censor or moderate content on their platforms, Substack made free speech one of its core values and, in doing so, has attracted bloggers and journalists from across the political spectrum. “While we have content guidelines that allow us to protect the platform at the extremes, we will always view censorship as a last resort, because we believe open discourse is better for writers and better for society,” proclaimed Substack’s founders. Lulu Cheng Meservey is Vice President of Communications for Substack. She went viral earlier this year when she tweeted about why free expression is an important principle for Substack. She joins us this week to discuss Substack, free speech, and the new media ecosystem. Show notes: Transcript Lulu’s viral tweet thread “Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse.” by Hamish McKenzie, Ch

Last month, the U.S. Department of Education proposed new Title IX regulations that, if implemented, would gut essential free speech and due process rights for college students facing sexual misconduct allegations on campus. Joining us to analyze the regulations and their impact are FIRE’s executive director and author of the book “Twisting Title IX,” Robert Shibley, Allen Harris Law Partner Samantha Harris, and Brooklyn College professor KC Johnson. Show notes: FIRE press release Proposed Title IX regulations Current Title IX regulations “Twisting Title IX” by Robert Shibley Lawsuits filed by students accused of sexual misconduct, 4/4/2011 through 01/07/21 Post Dear-Colleague Letter legal rulings and settlements www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakTheFreeSpeechPodcast Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]

“Every advance gay people have made in this country has been the result of the exercise of free expression,” argues writer James Kirchick, author of the New York Times bestseller, “Secret City: The Hidden History of Gay Washington.” Transcript: https://www.thefire.org/so-to-speak-podcast-transcript-the-first-amendment-created-gay-america/ www.sotospeakpodcast.com YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SotoSpeakTheFreeSpeechPodcast Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/freespeechtalk/ Email us: [email protected]