So To Speak: The Free Speech Podcast

Are America’s schools becoming too political?  FIRE’s Director of High School Programs argues, “Yes.” Bonnie Kerrigan Snyder is an educator with over 20 years of experience, and she’s worried by what she sees. Amidst controversies surrounding so-called critical race theory, school walkouts, and standardized tests, Snyder increasingly hears reports of children “being indoctrinated, bullied, and harassed by their fellow students and teachers for not falling into line on various topics.” On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss Snyder’s new book, “Undoctrinate: How Politicized Classrooms Harm Kids and Ruin Our Schools—And What We Can Do About It.” Show notes: Transcript West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette (1943) www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

Hollywood’s Motion Picture Production Code, popularly referred to as the Hays Code, loomed over films in every stage of movie production from 1934 to 1968. Scripts were reviewed and altered. Actors and filmmakers were forced to redo entire scenes. Editors were asked to cut dialogue and scenes from films. Music was changed. Ultimately, directors had to be cognizant of the censors at all times. In this episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we interview three prominent guests to track the history of film censorship and the eventual demise of the Hays Code. John Billheimer, author of “Hitchcock and the Censors (Screen Classics),” explains Alfred Hitchcock’s unique methods for dealing with controversial subject matter. Laura Wittern-Keller is a professor in the History department at the University at Albany and author of several books on film censorship, including “Freedom of the Screen: Legal Challenges to State Film Censorship, 1915-1981” and “The Miracle Case: Film Censorship and the Supreme Court.”

Morris Ernst may be the most influential free speech lawyer you’ve never heard of. He was the longtime general counsel for the ACLU, helped found the National Lawyers Guild, and just about single-handedly whittled away at obscenity laws in the United States — even litigating the famous “Ulysses” case, which overturned a 13-year ban on James’ Joyce’s renowned novel. But he was an enigma: A staunch anti-communist and sometimes red-baiter, a close confidant of FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, an unofficial PR agent for the FBI, and, later in his life, a crusader against the relative sexual permissiveness of the 1960s and ‘70s. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by University at Buffalo School of Law Professor Samantha Barbas to discuss her new book, “The Rise and Fall of Morris Ernst, Free Speech Renegade.” Show notes: Transcript “The Rise and Fall of Morris Ernst, Free Speech Renegade” by Samantha Barbas www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.c

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Stetson University Professor of Psychology Christopher J. Ferguson for a wide-ranging conversation about the psychology of censorship, the role of madness and eccentricity in shaping history, the effects of social media, the growing polarization and politicization of modern institutions, including academia, and more. Ferguson is the author of the new book “How Madness Shaped History: An Eccentric Array of Maniacal Rulers, Raving Narcissists, and Psychotic Visionaries.” He also co-authored “Moral Combat: Why the War on Violent Video Games is Wrong,” which was the subject of a past So to Speak episode. Show notes: Transcript “Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies” by Jared M. Diamond “Repressive Tolerance” by Herbert Marcuse “Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness” by Cass Sunstein www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https

This week, the United States Supreme Court vindicated the First Amendment rights of a high school cheerleader who was punished for a salty Snapchat she sent outside of school. It was a resounding victory for free speech advocates and the first time the Supreme Court has considered a high school free speech case since its disappointing 2007 ruling in Morse v. Frederick. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we analyze the Supreme Court’s ruling in Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. with FIRE Legal Director Will Creeley and FIRE Legal Fellow David Hudson. Show notes: Transcript Court opinion: Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. Listen to an audio reading of the opinion via Free Speech Out Loud FIRE, NCAC, and CBLDF file brief in Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L., cheerleader Snapchat case before Supreme Court www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: sotospeak@

Socrates’ fateful hemlock. Henry VIII’s death decree for those who imagined his downfall. The 1836 “Gag Rule” banning slavery discussions in Congress. Britain’s early ban on films criticizing Hitler and Stalin. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by lawyer and writer Eric Berkowitz to discuss his fascinating new book, “Dangerous Ideas: A Brief History of Censorship in the West, from the Ancients to Fake News.”  Berkowitz’s “Dangerous Ideas” is a comprehensive and insightful adventure through time to examine censorship’s origins and trends. Also joining the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff. Show notes: Transcript Washington Post: “Secret Consortium to Publish Rushdie in Paperback” www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

What differentiates Albert Einstein from a madman? How do we turn disagreement into knowledge? How do we know what’s true in a world filled with disinformation, conspiracy theories, trolling, and social media pile-ons? On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Brookings Institution Senior Fellow Jonathan Rauch to discuss his new book “The Constitution of Knowledge: A Defense of Truth,” which is set for release on June 22, 2021. Also joining the conversation is FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff. Show notes: Transcript “The Constitution of Knowledge” by Jonathan Rauch “Kindly Inquisitors: The New Attacks on Free Thought” by Jonathan Rauch “The Coddling of the American Mind” by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

Rebellion! Crime! Juvenile delinquency! On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, producer Chris Maltby explores the rise of comic books in the early 20th century and the moral panic, book burnings, and censorship that followed. Show notes: “The Ten-Cent Plague: The Great Comic Book Scare And How It Changed America” by David Hajdu “The Mind of the Censor and the Eye of the Beholder” by Bob Corn-Revere “A National Disgrace” by Sterling North “Puddles of Blood,” Time Magazine, 1948 Comic Book Legal Defense Fund www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

Are education schools secretly driving campus censorship?  On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Lewis & Clark Associate Professor of English Lyell Asher to discuss his 2018 article for the Chronicle of Higher Education, “How Ed Schools Became a Menace.” Also joining the conversation is FIRE President & CEO Greg Lukianoff, co-author of the bestseller “The Coddling of the American Mind.” Show notes: Transcript “Educating School Leaders” by Arthur Levine Yale University: Protesters at Yale Threaten Free Speech, Demand Apologies and Resignations from Faculty Members Over Halloween Email “Please Report to Your Resident Assistant to Discuss Your Sexual Identity—It’s Mandatory! Thought Reform at the University of Delaware” by Adam Kissel “Hard Words: Why Aren’t Kids Being Taught to Read” by Emily Hanford “At a Loss for Words: How a Flawed Idea is Teaching Millions of Kids to be Poor Readers” by Emily Hanford “Look Who’s Talking About Educational Equity” by Lyell As

Ninth grader Brandi Levy was frustrated when she didn’t make her high school’s varsity cheerleading team so she posted an intemperate video about it on Snapchat to her 250 “friends.” Four years later, that video, which led to her suspension from the junior varsity cheer team, will take center stage at the United States Supreme Court.  Mahanoy Area School District v. B.L. is a case that University of Florida Professor Frank LoMonte says will determine “the future of student free speech.” On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by LoMonte, who also leads the Brechner Center for Freedom of Information, and FIRE Program Officer Lindsie Rank to discuss the Mahanoy case, which could answer some important lingering questions about student speech rights off-campus and on social media. The Supreme Court is set to hear oral arguments in the case on Wednesday, April 28. A decision is expected this summer. Show notes: Transcript “The future of student free speech comes down to a foul

Editor's note: A previously published version of this episode featured an incorrect audio file for a different FIRE podcast. The error has been fixed and the correct audio file uploaded. We apologize for the error. Retired University of Wisconsin Professor Donald Downs is a legendary champion of free speech and academic freedom. But before he became one of the country’s preeminent defenders of these values, he wrote a book that challenged prevailing free speech arguments. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Professor Downs to discuss his journey from somewhat of a free speech skeptic to one of its most fervent defenders. Transcript Free Speech and Liberal Education: A Plea for Intellectual Diversity and Tolerance (2020) Nazis in Skokie: Freedom, Community, and the First Amendment (1985) Restoring Free Speech and Liberty on Campus (2007) www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the newly formed Academic Freedom Alliance, which is a union of American college faculty members dedicated to protecting faculty expressive and academic freedom rights. Keith E. Whittington is the William Nelson Cromwell Professor of Politics in the Department of Politics at Princeton University. Professor Whittington is the chair of AFA’s Academic Committee. He also is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors. Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

There are very few exceptions to the First Amendment, and “incitement to imminent lawless action” is one of them. In the wake of former President Donald Trump’s impeachment trial over his alleged incitement of the Jan. 6 violence at the U.S Capitol, this obscure legal doctrine has captured headlines. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we discuss the incitement doctrine, and whether Trump’s Jan. 6 speech amounted to incitement, with First Amendment scholar and FIRE Legal Fellow David L. Hudson Jr. He is an Assistant Professor of Law at Belmont University and the Justice Robert H. Jackson Legal Fellow at FIRE. Transcript Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) Transcript: Donald Trump speech at the Jan. 6 “Save America” rally www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we explore a multi-year public records odyssey at the University of California, Los Angeles involving former Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, a campus appearance, administrative stonewalling, and, finally, a successful lawsuit filed by FIRE. And, on the eve of Student Press Freedom Day, we learn about the challenges student journalists face accessing public records in the University of California system and why access to such records is important for democracy and for student journalists to fulfill their watchdog role. Show notes: Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by media lawyer Ian Rosenberg to discuss his new book, “The Fight for Free Speech: Ten Cases That Define Our First Amendment Freedoms.” Rosenberg is assistant chief counsel at ABC, Inc., where he has provided pre-broadcast counsel for ABC News clients on libel, newsgathering, intellectual property, and FCC regulatory issues since 2003. Show notes: Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

Last summer, Columbia University Professor John McWhorter wrote that he was receiving missives almost daily “from professors living in constant fear for their career because their opinions” are incompatible with campus orthodoxies. On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we catch up with McWhorter to discuss how the culture has changed (or not) since The Atlantic published his article, “Academics Are Really, Really Worried About Their Freedom.” McWhorter is a member of FIRE’s Board of Directors and the host of the popular Lexicon Valley podcast. Show notes: Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by senior editor at The Atlantic Kate Julian and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss rising rates of childhood depression, anxiety, and suicide.  How might these trends be connected to the way we parent our kids — and what do they mean for our wider society and for campus free speech? Kate is the author of the 2020 Atlantic cover story, “What Happened To American Childhood?,” and this conversation is part of Greg’s “Catching up with Coddling” blog series, in which he reviews recent developments related to the themes of his co-authored 2018 book “The Coddling of the American Mind.” Show notes: Transcript "Catching up with Coddling part seven: The #MustListen Kate Julian interview, ‘Runaway Homophily,’ and the second ‘Coddling’ Caveat" by Greg Lukianoff, Adam Goldstein, and Ryne Weiss “What Happened To American Childhood” by Kate Julian “The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting up a

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, we are joined by Reason Magazine Senior Editor Robby Soave and FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff to discuss the Washington, DC Capitol riot of Jan. 6, 2021 and the effect it has had — and will have — on free speech, particularly speech on the internet. Robby is the author of the forthcoming book “Tech Panic.” www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by the editor of NationalReview.com, Charles C.W. Cooke, to discuss free speech philosophy, Christopher Hitchens, the October murder of a school teacher in France, and recent attacks on Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Show notes: Transcript “Hate Speech and the Limits of Free Expression,” a Kenyon College panel (video) “What ‘Snowflakes’ Get Right About Free Speech” by Ulrich Baer Christopher Hitchens - Free Speech (video) “Free Speech Without Apologies” by Charles C.W. Cooke www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]

On today’s episode of So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast, host Nico Perrino is joined by Richard Ovenden to discuss his new book, “Burning the Books: A History of the Deliberate Destruction of Knowledge.”Ovenden is the Director of the Bodleian Libraries at the University of Oxford and a Fellow of Balliol College. In 2019, he was awarded the Order of the British Empire. Show notes: Transcript www.sotospeakpodcast.com Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/freespeechtalk Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sotospeakpodcast Email us: [email protected]